tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post6907591810919980304..comments2023-08-27T12:35:12.308+02:00Comments on sanscrite cogitare, sanscrite loqui: Sequence in the study of Mīmāṃsā and Vedānta in Vedāntadeśika's Seśvaramīmāṃsāelisa freschihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17068583874519657894noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-35352600746833735482012-11-08T06:45:42.196+01:002012-11-08T06:45:42.196+01:00हिहिहि। श्वेतद्वीपस्य विषये यत्तच्छ्वैतद्वीप्यं। य...हिहिहि। श्वेतद्वीपस्य विषये यत्तच्छ्वैतद्वीप्यं। यूरोपद्वीपमम्रीकद्वीपं च श्वेतद्वीपमेव तत्त्वज्ञा आहुः। Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-51751575258012702062012-11-07T10:14:22.035+01:002012-11-07T10:14:22.035+01:00श्वैतद्वीप्य इति पाश्चत्यलोकः किम् ?श्वैतद्वीप्य इति पाश्चत्यलोकः किम् ?elisa freschihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17068583874519657894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-75202666210595437952012-11-07T09:30:35.458+01:002012-11-07T09:30:35.458+01:00अहो मम सुहृद्विश्वास आगतोऽस्ति। कदाचिदेलीसासुदीप्त...अहो मम सुहृद्विश्वास आगतोऽस्ति। कदाचिदेलीसासुदीप्तयोः श्वैतद्वीप्यस्य भारतीयस्य च शास्त्रस्य विषये संवादस्तवाऽपि रोचिष्यते। अद्याऽप्यत्र वर्तते। Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-53389587737802369052012-11-07T05:48:37.357+01:002012-11-07T05:48:37.357+01:00* अश्वमित्रस्* अश्वमित्रस्विश्वासः वासुकेयःnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-49634495573353089642012-11-07T05:47:27.846+01:002012-11-07T05:47:27.846+01:00नितराम् लज्जावहः अयम् दुर्गन्धमारुतचक्रः। अश्वमित्...नितराम् लज्जावहः अयम् दुर्गन्धमारुतचक्रः। अश्वमित्रो तम् सम्यगवगतवान्।विश्वासः वासुकेयःnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-90845626066128027612012-11-07T02:29:33.877+01:002012-11-07T02:29:33.877+01:00अहं मूढोऽस्मि नेत्येवं मूढाः प्रायेण वै विदुः।
याव...अहं मूढोऽस्मि नेत्येवं मूढाः प्रायेण वै विदुः।<br />यावत्तु वेत्ति मौढ्यं स्वं तावदात्मविदेव सः॥Philliphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07829053219715458764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-16667026807347151772012-11-06T05:49:46.749+01:002012-11-06T05:49:46.749+01:00[I do write in Skt- but I don't publish. Let&#...[I do write in Skt- but I don't publish. Let's see what you or Ashvamitra have!]<br /><br />This is where I publish my Sanskrit verse:<br /><br />http://dainikahshlokah.blogspot.in/<br /><br />That I do so, and that I publish this shameful secret here, should be counted unto me as boldness and humility both. I imagine that most of these "daily verses" are bizarre and even incomprehensible, but sometimes I hit the bullseye and produce one that deceives even the learned, so that they ask me which shastra it is from.<br /><br />[I love fucking German people]<br /><br />I'm trying to remember if I've ever done that.<br /><br />[true my Nanny fed us only on pure Vege stuff which is why me and my sister are bigger and stronger than you guys]<br /><br />I'm sure we're all vegetarians here.<br /><br />[but for me- honestly- I could eat sausages]<br /><br />I couldn't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-56336295990077889682012-11-05T10:02:26.906+01:002012-11-05T10:02:26.906+01:00Could you point out what is plainly wrong in my po...Could you point out what is plainly wrong in my posts? Please consider that I will need to read it stated in plain terms (otherwise I will not understand it). You might say that it is not your fault if I do not understand and that this lack of understanding is part of my faults. But please consider that, for the sake of other readers, it would be helpful if I could avoid some flaws.elisa freschihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17068583874519657894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-73559778967506560502012-11-04T22:54:23.203+01:002012-11-04T22:54:23.203+01:00OMG. I really don't make sense AT ALL- do I?
...OMG. I really don't make sense AT ALL- do I? <br />What I mean is this<br />1) yes than you Elisa, Mem Sahib, I will be friends with Ashvamitra, very sweet of you to insist on it<br />2) looking at your material, I think things like 'matching' which is as important as 'concurrency' and 'subsumption' (which you don't seem to be aware of though you must have come up under Structuralism) such that you don't have a picture of Yagnya and are simply talking nonsense. <br />I was struck by something you said on your blog- BUT YOU WERE WRONG. There is no Hindu warrant for it. This is simple U.F.O-ology which stupid Indians back home will repeat or bleat.<br />I said I would edit your book- it would have been a free Master Class in Philosophy and Indology. <br />Two weeks in, you would have understood why Classical Skt. is totally shit and everybody safe guarded their results in manipravalay prose. <br />Look, Skt is great because a Tamil like me finds EVERYTHING WONDERFUL about my own place- even in that bloody Punjabi dialect!<br />I have been thinking of publishing my Sansrit verse- I already published my Urdu verse- but have been held back by my own radical ideas and method of semantic compression.<br />But what does that matter? The language is not just now dead but stupidly dead.<br />I can still adapt it for Tamil or Hindi and thus for English- what you say is foolish simply.<br /> I do write in Skt- but I don't publish. Let's see what you or Ashvamitra have!windwheelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18099651877551933295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-52790004542549176672012-11-04T22:14:11.377+01:002012-11-04T22:14:11.377+01:00Sorry- I just saw that Ashvamitra, whom I actually...Sorry- I just saw that Ashvamitra, whom I actually had been aware off previously, was inviting me to chat privately.<br /><br />Anyway, Signiora Freschi, I must humbly apologize. Ah! if only you had a Mum dressed all in black with a rolling pin in her hand- believe me, when I first came to London at the age of 14, I made peace between 'the Capulets and Montagues' by going myself to see the old ladies.<br />Now, 8 percent of the Italian population is black- nobody will believe the black Indian boy was only being Christian.<br /><br /><br />Anyway, Elisa, my dear, your blog which is Ka, Kha and the honeycomb of the sky- deserves my imprecation. <br />You don't know it but having bambino in the house- Ah! What can one say? Just visiting my young colleague and his wife (where have they hidden baby?) I also get that feeling though at an advanced age.<br />Still, you must understand 'meta-metaphoricity'- it will help you and prevent you saying really stupid things in your old age.<br />BTW I've looked at Tantra and Jyotish- it's 'matching problem' your paradigm is already out of date and foolish.<br />Babe, in this context, everybody does poetry.windwheelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18099651877551933295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-27757857041719693622012-11-04T21:56:04.674+01:002012-11-04T21:56:04.674+01:00Okay- I really fucking like Ashwamitra! Does that ...Okay- I really fucking like Ashwamitra! Does that make me gay? Well maybe, now I'm coming up to the big five Oh- yeah, sure, urm ... maybe.. fuck would it involve.. I go to the gym everyday but I'm 'a grower not a shower' - actually, Ashwamitra I'm sorry I don't do dunno whatever it is that has me so stirred up internally.<br />I mean my trying to kinda sexually harass Elisa Freschi ( a name Umberto Saba would have creamed over) was all just good fun- like she wouldn't get her bottom pinched if she mounted vyanjana's Clapham omnibus like she said she wanted to do.<br />I am no longer addressing, with a measure of embarrassment I confess, the noble chatelaine of this Parnassus of discourse, but, in tribute to her, her insistence on- an insistence I equate with that of Victoria Lady Welby- on the plain facts of the case obliges me to confess that I don't know Sansrit any more than I know English or my own family's Credo.<br />I wasn't taught these things. I grew into them. At various times in my life people have tried to teach me Sanskrit or English or Maths, but I was just too smart/lazy to do any such thing.<br />Purely because of my own idleness and lack of ambition, I went to the LSE in 1979 when I was 16. The greatest intellectual revolution- since the Rg Veda discovered God was a Mom and hence fucking hilarious- had happened there a few years previously.<br />I'm now 50. I'm not German- I'm Tam Bram. I don't want to be dealing with Sanskrit grammar especially because of my own bin Vyakaran Veda poem- because Pannini is a fucking innovator and a stupid one at that. The Rk is about collacations not fucking sandhi.<br />I was born in Germany- I love fucking German people, true my Nanny fed us only on pure Vege stuff which is why me and my sister are bigger and stronger than you guys, but for me- honestly- I could eat sausages- well, I like sauerkraut- and, yeah, German beer is okay- not as good as Czech beer, but there you go.<br />I will continue this drunken comment after the break<br />windwheelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18099651877551933295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-79773941135277340742012-11-04T18:34:49.807+01:002012-11-04T18:34:49.807+01:00वाचस्पतिं नमस्कृत्य वर्णयामि मरुद्भवम्।
चक्रायन्ते...वाचस्पतिं नमस्कृत्य वर्णयामि मरुद्भवम्।<br />चक्रायन्ते गिरो यस्य प्रवातेन तु मौढ्यस्य॥Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07695587062582618769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-65593175123759328452012-11-04T18:06:03.467+01:002012-11-04T18:06:03.467+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07695587062582618769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-51074131858994139242012-11-03T02:24:01.100+01:002012-11-03T02:24:01.100+01:00[BTW everybody's Sanskrit is shit- except mine...[BTW everybody's Sanskrit is shit- except mine because I'm using it properly just as my ancestors did.]<br /><br />LOL, Sudipta is here put on notice that he is violating Windwheel's sacred language by speaking and writing it. Anyway, Windwheel, you're fulla shit, though I say it without rancour and with recognition. Our Sanskrit may be bad, but you're not the one to tell us. There was an uncharacteristically long pause before your response, and that response betrays very little awareness of the actual content of our conversation. We're bad, but not that bad. Sudipta has no trouble with our mistakes, nor do the many genuinely Sanskrit-knowing Indians with whom I correspond. From my point of view, there's nothing wrong with the fact that you don't know Sanskrit well enough to get more than a superficial sense of even a simple text, sniping at others' mistakes without putting forward even a single syllable of your own like the crappy non-Indian academic sanskritists you despise. No, it doesn't bother me, but it clearly bothers you (though your rage is displaced onto those who threaten to bring the fact to your attention), and that's precisely because of the defining fault of yours that we were talking about: I wasn't wrong, you're a वंशवादी, living in a world of gross groupist stereotypes that you project in all directions, including back onto yourself: just as Elisa (despite the total lack of supporting evidence and every indication of exactly the opposite) simply must be all kinds of terrible and wicked and disgusting things just because she is Italian, an indologist, and working in a German university, so you simply must know Sanskrit and simply must have a deep and total understanding of Hindu philosophy by virtue of the fact that you are a Tambram, and the repressed fact that you actually don't is evidently an incomprehensible embarrassment to you.<br /><br />Anyway, no hard feelings, really. I'm a fuckwit too (to use your frequent if probably disingenuous and manipulative self-appelation). Your rants are highly entertaining, you obviously know an enormous amount and you present it in a hilarious and lively way. So let's be friends, all of us. But let's cut the crap.Philliphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07829053219715458764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-63860302692461236472012-11-02T06:04:01.680+01:002012-11-02T06:04:01.680+01:00[Your worthless friends who think they are smart b...[Your worthless friends who think they are smart because they have learnt the easiest of artificial languages]<br /><br />I guess this is why you're so angry. You think we're egomaniacs too, and that we do what we do because we want to make you feel bad about yourself. But this is paranoia. Speaking for myself, I know I'm an idiot, I know my Sanskrit is crap. I do Sanskrit because I love it, and Sanskrit will survive the vilolation of my unworthy love. We've got something in common: I'm a bad poet too, and it would be so much easier for me to write my bad poetry in English. You should be able to relate, a bit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-7824399914357361812012-11-02T05:39:03.344+01:002012-11-02T05:39:03.344+01:00[People like you, who have no interest in India]
...[People like you, who have no interest in India]<br /><br />Are you somewhere in or near Pune or Bengaluru? Let's meet for thali. I'll bring my wife to protect me, and lighten the conversation a bit. I'm serious. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-52961094512892644792012-11-02T05:33:26.212+01:002012-11-02T05:33:26.212+01:00[I do not know about Aśvamitra, but maybe you can ...[I do not know about Aśvamitra, but maybe you can drop him a line?]<br /><br />Drop me a line, Windwheel. You should be able to get both my Gmail and Facebook addresses via my comments as अश्वमित्रः I am only anonimo between nine and six, when I have to comment via my office computer, which does not permit me to sign in to my Google account. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-83971349217920135612012-11-01T23:02:29.228+01:002012-11-01T23:02:29.228+01:00I am sorry if it seemed that I ignored your offer....I am sorry if it seemed that I ignored your offer. In fact, I thought I had written to you that I would have been very pleased, but that I could not see why you would have wanted to do it. After your answer, I assumed I would have sent you a future article and asked for your advice.<br /><br />As for the current request, you can quote me and my weak Sanskrit, of course. If I had wanted to keep my flaws private I had avoided blogging in Sanskrit. I do not know about Aśvamitra, but maybe you can drop him a line?<br /><br />As for my being disappointing for you, in one sense it was foreseeable, since you are a poet and a free spirit and I work within the boundaries of Western disciplines, with all their flaws. In one sense, as my first answer to your offer shows, I am surprised that you could at all find what I write of any interest. But this spark of interests encourages me anyway. elisa freschihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17068583874519657894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-56564198385457210022012-11-01T20:44:22.180+01:002012-11-01T20:44:22.180+01:00My God is called God without Shame- Nirlajjaishvar...My God is called God without Shame- Nirlajjaishvara. Shame, as I am sure you know, is the other side of the coin of thymos. <br />Indology was and is and a practice of low thymos, ashamed of itself. Roberto Callasso, in praising Talleyrand, wasn't doing a better job than his then best-in-class translator; nor was he really adding to our appreciation of the guy as Kipling does (Kipling did not go to Uni. That's how come he knows worthwhile stuff about French and 'Hindu palaver' and 'Muslim mouthing off'- i.e. if you just tell stories to your kids- or listen to the boy tell stories to his little sis- you've got the ability to end the vicious circle of crap books breeding more crap books.<br />Do it for your kids.<br />They're worth it.windwheelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18099651877551933295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-84945426711620256392012-11-01T20:26:07.571+01:002012-11-01T20:26:07.571+01:00I know you will ignore this request of mine- just ...I know you will ignore this request of mine- just as you have done every other- because of a perception of self-alterity which those productive in this autonomous, if still heteronomous, field nevertheless shoulder as part of their 'White Man's burden' of being now despised by wealthier, more academically successful, people from that 'Area of Darkness' which was your Caliban mirror, still, you are Paretian, Pirandellian, you work hard, you are a good person, you don't tell lies, so- I request you- answer the questions I raise. From being a German type philologist, you could at least become a Russian type.<br />The Russians want you to stay Italian- you are more all-round productive that way, the Germans don't. <br />Indians don't care. Americans are stupid. China, which produced Moh Tzu- only good guy in the history of Pol Phil ever- China is the place to start to understand Kurmarila and other such cunts.<br />What you call Mimamsa isn't Mimamsa at all. I'm a Hindu. I do Mimamsa same way my ancestors did. I'm also a (bad) poet. Rg Veda came alive to me- I know I have the right hermeneutic for it- no fucking Marcel or Mickey Mouse shite about 'Sacrifice as potlatch or some other idiocy some real stupid 'anthropologist' (i.e. stupid, sexually degenerate liar) said; everything is already known, the Bhagvad Gita was given away for free to 'women, slaves, and people like me'<br />so I do know this stuff.<br />Why don't you?<br />I'm amazed you never asked me to source a Pandit for you to run your stuff by. You remember I asked if you could volunteer as an editor? You asked- why would you want to do that?<br />Was it not obvious?<br />Sanskrit is a 'Holy Language' for me because of the sect I belong to. <br />It would be easier for me to write poetry in Sanskrit because of it's obvious advantages. I struggle to achieve the same thing in English and Urdu.<br />People like you, who have no interest in India, are like those prostitutes and street peddlers and casual labourers and lovers who are that scum- fex urbis- whose need for love creates the condition for their becoming lex orbis.<br />In some respects, I won't disguise my disappointment with you- your closed mind and lack of any discernible azure horizon- but I feel there is a parrhesiac quality to you- be it howsoever misguided- which either the futility of your pursuit or the fatuousness of your profession might, at any moment, yield something as worthy as your womb.windwheelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18099651877551933295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-70110067576691718532012-11-01T19:31:19.812+01:002012-11-01T19:31:19.812+01:00Could I request a favour? I'd like permission ...Could I request a favour? I'd like permission to quote, in full, some of the Sanskrit comments here in a forthcoming book of mine about Western Indology. I want to show how Sanskrit is either bin Vyakaran Vyanjana or else a memetic canalisation of stupidity, deliberate & deliberative ignorance, and pure (that is entirely foolish) colour based prejudice.<br />Don't worry, nobody reads my books and since I was born in Germany to Iyer that is Aryan parents, I have a totally sterile and un-infectious sense of humour. Also I don't do esprit unless some bullying Berlusconi type of Italian female like yourself shouts at me and then kicks me down stairs. In that case, I can rise to the sort of l'esprit de l'escalier expressible in my earlier and lapidary suggestion that your Careerist ladder climbing made you Merkel's prison bitch.<br />Meditation on this image, too, is fractally productive of Moksha.<br />Mind it kindly.<br />windwheelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18099651877551933295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-75298335537425787832012-11-01T19:15:26.875+01:002012-11-01T19:15:26.875+01:00What is a Vidushaka and how is he different from t...What is a Vidushaka and how is he different from the Rg Vedic Vidusha or contemporary Vidushi?<br />The answer of course is that the Vidushaka is hunch backed, wears spectacles, is fat and ugly, of Brahmin caste, and dark-skinned in the manner of 'Kala', not Krishna, and that he is also the sort of spoilt or soured cream of that milk of human kindness which pumps most in an idealistic uxorious sap who really wants to get married but all women find him repulsive.<br />Philologically, the Vidushak is interesting because he gives rise to Manipravalay.<br />I have written an entire novel- Samlee's daughter- in hasya/bibhatsa rasa explicating vatsalya-as-theodicy 'pillai bhakti' tradition to which I belong by ancestry- which you Indologists might find it interesting to read, if you genuinely wanted to leap-frog lakshana rather than clutch to the coat-tails of respectability of the Credentialist Ponzi Scheme of the Academy against which they young anonymous students of Paris rose up in vain.<br />Elisa, luv, (luv is Cockney, working class, London, English like wot William Blake spoke)of course you can ' jump one intermediate step (that of poetry) and land on spirituality directly from intellectual rationality'<br />That's what great poets do- at least in India.<br />But, it's like saying 'I want to go from being a maiden to being married without any supervenience of courtship'<br />Actually a lot of good marriages happen that way. Bus so do bad marriages. Courtship, on the other hand, is something good in itself.<br />The unexpected aspect of Petrarch's (the 'first modern') interaction with Barlaam is that haecceity gets a hypokeimenon in every boy & girl romance and the babies (or their piquant ontological lack which binds them together that much more firmly) which result.<br />Anyway, the good news for you & me is that I don't really piss you off- everybody just hates me.windwheelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18099651877551933295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-79330085562658433122012-11-01T03:27:19.325+01:002012-11-01T03:27:19.325+01:00चक्रवच्च परिवर्तते वदन्। अहो विदूषकः। चक्रवच्च परिवर्तते वदन्। अहो विदूषकः। Philliphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07829053219715458764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-67922258706640616882012-11-01T02:43:33.810+01:002012-11-01T02:43:33.810+01:00प्रवातचक्र एव तु स्वां मतिमसत्यां दर्शयति। अहमेव म...प्रवातचक्र एव तु स्वां मतिमसत्यां दर्शयति। अहमेव मीमांसां जानामि यतोऽहं भारतीयजातिकोऽस्मि त्वं तु मीमांसां ज्ञातुं न शक्नोषि यत इतालियादेशजाताऽसीति पुनः पुनः वदति। अतिव्यक्तं तु यत्स सर्वतो यूरोपजातस्वभाविकः पुरुषोऽस्ति । यदयं महामीमांसाशास्त्री संस्कृतमेव न जानातीदं हाहाकारमस्ति। सत्यनामैव त्वयं यतः प्रवातमेव वदति। Philliphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07829053219715458764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6641738716446631837.post-6742922942274860772012-11-01T00:10:31.788+01:002012-11-01T00:10:31.788+01:00@अश्वमित्रमहोदय | समीचिनमस्ति | प्रवातचक्रः पुनः प...@अश्वमित्रमहोदय | समीचिनमस्ति | प्रवातचक्रः पुनः पुनः "सः _देशीयः, अत एवमेव स्यात्" इत्यादि वदति |elisa freschihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17068583874519657894noreply@blogger.com